00:00:05
Speaker 1: This week’s episode of Bear Grease is very unique. I had a once in a lifetime opportunity to sit down with legendary American news broadcaster Ted Copple. I did an hour long interview with Ted, and what I’ve learned is that if you are below the age of thirty five, there’s a chance that that name wouldn’t ring a bell in your head, or if you saw his face, you might might not recognize it. But if you’re over the age of thirty five, I would say you probably recognize the name Ted Copple. He was a broadcast journalist for ABC Nightline from nineteen eighty to two thousand and five, and his face would have been as recognizable as any American president. As a matter of fact, he has interview every American president since Nixon, and he’s interviewed you just name a world leader over the last thirty five to forty years, and Ted Copple has sat with him and he was on Bear Grease, which I think is pretty cool. We talk about his life, we talk about his career in journalism, and I really think you’re gonna enjoy this episode with a really unique guy. I also wanted to tell you and remind you about the Meat Eater Live Tour, the Good, the Bad, and the Jolly. We’re doing a Christmas live tour. We’re going to seven cities across the South. We’re starting in Birmingham, going to Nashville, Tennessee, then to Memphis, Tennessee, then to Faedville, Arkansas. With the W I think there’s potential for people to think we’re going to Fedville, North Carolina, great city, but we’re going to Fadebe, Arkansas, Josh. Then we’re going on to Dallas, Texas, and then to Austin and it’s all right before Christmas. And you can buy tickets right now. Go to the meat eater dot com slash tour and buy your tickets. I really think they’re gonna sell out fast. And the Mediator Live Tour, it’s like a variety show. It’s like a two hour variety show. There’s gonna be music, there’s gonna be storytelling. There’s gonna be contests, potentially an out hooting contest of which I would be the King Supreme Judge of. There will be a lot of audience participation. We’re gonna give away stuff and truly it’s just guaranteed to be a good time. It’s gonna be Steve Vanella, Brent Reeves, Giannis Boutellius, doctor Randall Williams, and myself along Within every city we’re gonna have special guests and I can tell you it’s just a lot of fun. So check that out. And then lastly, before we get to the interview with Ted Copple, check out Meat Eater’s Whitetail Week. If you’re looking for refresh on your First Light gear, check out Whitetail Week September twenty ninth through October the fifth. September twenty ninth through October the fifth, and I truly believe that First Light has the best whitetail gear on planet Earth. It ain’t cheap. I’m not gonna act like it’s cheap, but nothing that’s good it’s cheap, so but it truly is. We’ve got some of the best whitetail kids and they’re all gonna be on sale, so check it out. Without further ado, thank you so much for listening to Bear Grease. This episode will drop on iTunes and all the audio platforms, but also YouTube. You’ll be able to watch me grilling Ted Copple, the man who interviewed the first American guy, interview Pewtin, he interviewed Nixon, he interviewed Clinton, he interviewed Mikhail gorbage Off, he interviewed the great leaders of the Earth. And now it’s his turn to feel the heat. I hope you enjoyed, Ted Copple, My name is Clay Nukem, and this is the Bear Grease Podcast, where we’ll explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, and where we’ll tell the story of Americans who live their lives close to the land. Presented by FHF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear as designed to be as rugged as the place as we explore. Mister Copple, Ted Ted, just Ti, it’s great to have you here. Thank you so much for agreeaned to meet with me and for coming to Arkansas.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: Well, I had to you. It’s threatened not to do it if I wouldn’t talk to you.
00:05:06
Speaker 1: Well, it’s a it’s a pleasure to meet you. I grew up watching you. I was born in nineteen seventy nine, so my childhood you missed the early years, missed some of the early years, yes, but but but I grew up watching you knew your voice. It was just a kid for much of your career. Sure, but but thank you so much for being here. I’ve got a I’ve got a little introduction that I would like to read for for for people listening. That’s that’s about you. It’s a little bio about you, and you can you can add in any corrections or adjustments or polish it up if you wish. Well, Okay, this was not written by chat GPD by the way, this was this so we’ll see how accurate accurate is. Ted Copple is an American broadcast journalists and author. His career at ABC News spanned more than four decades and included roles as a foreign and diplomatic correspondent, but was best known for his twenty five year tenure as anchor and managing editor of ABC News Nightline. During his time at Nightline, which began in nineteen eighty, he became one of American television’s most trusted voices. Koppel has won dozens of prestigious honors for his work, including numerous Emmys and Peabody Awards. After leaving Nightline in two thousand and five, he continued his career as a journalist, including serving as managing editor for the Discovery Channel and analysts for NPR and BBC, and a senior contributor to CBS News Sunday Morning.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: Which is what brings when you here, which.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: Is what brings you here today, Right, I’m really most interested. I find there’s been a lot of a lot of media about your career, which that’s what people see. People see your career. They’ve seen you interview Richard Nixon and Mikhail Gorbachev and world leaders and presidents and and uh orchestrated kind of to the American people, the Iranian hostage situation. I mean, all these like key events. That’s and that’s that’s kind of the shiny, you know, glimmering part of your life that people are in.
00:07:31
Speaker 2: That’s that’s the the Iranian hostage crisis. That’s what you were listening to every day when you were three years old.
00:07:39
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, best I can recall, yes, yes.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you got it all right, you got it right well.
00:07:49
Speaker 1: And part of what I’m most interested in is what got you to that place of success in your career because oftentimes people see somebody that’s been really successful and it appears as if they just they that it just it just that just showed up in their life. Well, you’re Ted Copple. Of course you’re going to be interviewing world leaders. But there was a there was a journey that got you to that place, and I kind of want to start at the beginning to give some chronology. You you were born in London, England, and you’re.
00:08:27
Speaker 2: Actually I was born in Lancashire, which is up north, just just south of the Scottish border, and then my parents moved down to London at the beginning of the war.
00:08:38
Speaker 1: M hm, So but you were that’s where you were born.
00:08:42
Speaker 2: I was born in England and.
00:08:44
Speaker 1: Your parents fled Germany they because of persecution from Nazis.
00:08:51
Speaker 2: Yes, wow, they did. Wow they did. My good fortune that they did, and that they a little later on decided to come to the United States. That was the best of all.
00:09:05
Speaker 1: What kind of persecution did they receive? Like what was going on? I mean, I know the stories, I know the general idea, but specifically your parents.
00:09:16
Speaker 2: Well specifically, my father was arrested a couple of times and held for a few days. And fortunately one of his best friends from school where he had grown up was a judge who was able to get him out and who told him at one point, I think you’d better leave. You might not make it out the next time.
00:09:40
Speaker 1: Why was he arrested?
00:09:42
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Well, I mean he’s Jewish, so that was a good reason.
00:09:48
Speaker 1: Were they looking for Jewish people to do something like minor that they could arrest. Were they just straight up going and saying you are a Jew, I am now taking you in or was it? Was it anything specific?
00:10:02
Speaker 2: You know? Frankly, I wasn’t around at the time, so I can’t tell you how they did it, but they didn’t need many excuses. I mean, they ended up killing six million people, so you know that was that was just the way it began. Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker 1: And then when they when they came to London, were they not to London Lancaster.
00:10:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, they went up to Lancashire because my father had run a factory in Germany that made rubber tires and Lancashire, as you may or may not know, was a big textile center of the UK and you need textiles for the interior of automobile tires. So they invited him to come to Lancashire and set up shop there, which he did, and you started at tire factory in.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: Lancashire, and you lived there till you were thirteen.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: Not Lancashire, I lived I was. Actually I was in boarding school when I was eleven. So for the last two years, two and a half years I was in boarding school before we came to the United States.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Okay, so you were though in England til you were thirteen. Yes, okay, Now this may seem a little may not It seems to be not a great, not a relevant question. But how do you not have an English accent?
00:11:38
Speaker 2: Well, I’ll explain how it was when I first came over. So I was thirteen years old, and here’s this scrawny little kid thirteen with an English accent in high school in study hall, absolute silent, an all boys school. And the little English kid raises his hand and says, and this is how it sounded back then. Please, does anyone here have a rubber which in England is an eraser? In New York City it was not. And as you can imagine, that was the source of some amusement.
00:12:28
Speaker 1: So this actually happened, This is not, this is not, this really happened.
00:12:33
Speaker 2: I wouldn’t make this story up, trust me, Yes, this happened. And you know, from then on for the next few months or so, making fun of the English kid and his accent was very much a part of it. But A, I’ve got a good ear for accents, and B I was young enough that I was still very flexible.
00:12:58
Speaker 1: So did you intentionally change your accent?
00:13:01
Speaker 2: It wasn’t a matter of intentional It was a matter of you know, as as you’ll notice over the course of the next couple of days, when I’m around you, by the time I leave here, I’ll be sounding just like you.
00:13:13
Speaker 1: Code switching, code switching? Code switching?
00:13:16
Speaker 2: Is that what its?
00:13:17
Speaker 1: People accuse me of? Code switching sometimes?
00:13:19
Speaker 2: Right?
00:13:20
Speaker 1: Because you you you basically adapt your language the words that you say to best connect with the person that you’re dealing with. When I talk to people from here and where I’m at, I might drop her into low gear and bring in that Ozark accent.
00:13:38
Speaker 2: I’ll start sounding like you, I told you.
00:13:41
Speaker 1: And then but then when I’m with you, know, when I’m with Ted Copple, I might I might tone it up a little bit. Code switching.
00:13:47
Speaker 2: Code switching? Yeah, is that a term you came up with? No?
00:13:51
Speaker 1: No, this is not. This is a.
00:13:54
Speaker 2: Term a linguistic terms something new, Yes, code switching.
00:13:59
Speaker 1: Because I will If you told me that somebody lived in England for thirteen years, I would have thought you would always had a touch of an accent.
00:14:07
Speaker 2: But and I did for the first few years. I really did. I mean even when I went off to college. I have tapes audio tapes of some of the programs I did at the college radio station, and the little kid still has very much of an English accent.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: Yes, So what brought your parents here? What did what opportunity opened up in America that brought them here?
00:14:35
Speaker 2: What brought them here? I have to believe was love for me and the thought that the United States was still is still. I like to believe the land of opportunity. It certainly worked out that way for me.
00:14:54
Speaker 1: Were you an only child? I was only child.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Wow, My parents were quite advanced in years by the time they married. My mother was forty when I was born. My father was forty four forty five, So you know, it was it. I was kind of both were the I was a one shot wonder it was going to be me and no no brothers and sisters to worry about.
00:15:23
Speaker 1: Did they live into your career long enough that they saw you be as successful as you know.
00:15:30
Speaker 2: Really, they saw me be a war correspondent in Vietnam, and I you know, I found after my dad died, I found a diary that he had kept of every time he heard me on the radio every time. But they never they never got to see me on nightline. No.
00:15:59
Speaker 1: If there’s one thing that I know about people, it’s that where we come from affects our worldview. Who we are, who we become, our character. Right, how did tell me how your parents impacted your life?
00:16:17
Speaker 2: Like?
00:16:17
Speaker 1: Are you still living out? Would you say the value system, the character that you have inside of you today would be congruent with your parents. Would it be different? Is it shifted?
00:16:32
Speaker 2: I think that’s a that’s a very good way of putting it. I think the value system would be the same. I think who I have become, what I’ve done. There was there was no background for that in my family. I mean, the idea that I would become a journalist, the idea that I would I mean over the course of the past. Let’s see, I’ve been doing this now since nineteen sixty three, So what are we talking about sixty sixty two years ago? Over the past sixty two years I’ve probably covered seven eight different wars that shaped me a lot. I’ve spent more time with the US military in one place or another, one form or another than many of my friends who were in the military. I was never in the military, but I’ve spent an awful lot of time with them. Most recently, someone was remarking on my backpack out there, which has Copple Nightline on it. Last time I used that backpack was in Iraq. I was embedded with US forces there. Wow, when they invaded Iraq. That was two thousand and three. What are you twenty two years ago? M?
00:18:04
Speaker 1: Interesting? Were your parents people of faith?
00:18:07
Speaker 2: Yes?
00:18:09
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you today a person of faith?
00:18:13
Speaker 2: Less? So I’m married to a Catholic woman. She and I have been very respective, respectful rather of one another’s religions. I am less of a believer than my parents were. M.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: I understand, Do you? I do understand?
00:18:38
Speaker 2: Okay, I do, I do. Yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker 1: That’s interesting, don’t.
00:18:42
Speaker 2: You don’t relate? But you understand?
00:18:46
Speaker 1: That’s a good way to put it. I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you got married in nineteen sixty three, sixty three, nineteen sixty three, right, and at that time you had just gotten out of college. You went to Syracuse and stan Stanford. Stanford, is that correct? Yeah, I just got my master’s at Stanford. I had worked for a local radio station in New York. I went to the New York Times.
00:19:16
Speaker 2: They offered me a job as what was called a copy boy in those days.
00:19:24
Speaker 1: Sounds a little derogatory. Coffee boy.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Believe me, it was derogatory coffee. Coffee they were.
00:19:31
Speaker 1: They weren’t trying to make it sound derogatory.
00:19:33
Speaker 2: It was. It was derogatory exactly. I mean, you know, you were a copy boy. You got coffee for the people who counted, the editors, the reporters.
00:19:43
Speaker 1: Right, It’s like Josh, my producer.
00:19:45
Speaker 2: Well I was, you got very very close. Your wife was nice enough to bring me this copy coach my coffee. She is not your copy girl.
00:19:56
Speaker 1: She should get coffee sometimes.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: She was very gracious. She was a hostess. So you know, I did that for about a year and the New York Times offered me a job as a copy boy, and I said, well, what does it pay? And my wife and I had just married, actually we’d been married for a few months already, we had a baby on the way, and they were paying I believe back then it was sixty five dollars a week, and at the time I was making ninety dollars a week at a local radio station, so I couldn’t take the pay cut to go to the Times. And after a year or so, one of the one of the disc jockeys at ABC at this radio station WNCA, got a job at ABC and told me they still had a couple of openings. So I went and applied for it, and they said, you know, you’re very good and we’d like to hire you, but you’re twenty three years old. You know, we can’t hire a twenty three year old as a correspondent at a network. And I said, well, you’re talking about a radio correspondent. I said, I don’t sound twenty three, do I? And you said no, And I said, well, if you don’t tell him, I won’t. And they waited a couple of days and then they came back and said, okay, you got the job. And I was whether you be safe for forty three years?
00:21:45
Speaker 1: Were you reporting when Kennedy got assassinated? I was, was that that was early on?
00:21:52
Speaker 2: Well, I was nineteen sixty three. That was my first year. The first year.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now were you on assignment to what you had a specific assignment after that?
00:22:01
Speaker 2: Well, at that time I was doing a program called Flare Reports with five other people, and these were a little three minute news news features.
00:22:14
Speaker 1: And they were doing three minute news features in nineteen sixty three. Yes, it sounds a little I thought it was more of this long form. I thought this was new that we were doing these little Uh no, that’s uh okay.
00:22:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could have been You could have been at ABC. See you could have been doing could have you could have I think you had here landed on your feet here, Yeah, I did.
00:22:41
Speaker 1: You didn’t expect too, didn’t expect to be a journalist.
00:22:45
Speaker 2: Well there you go.
00:22:46
Speaker 1: So you what did what did you do with the Kennedy assassination? What was your You were assigned to Lyndon Johnson.
00:22:52
Speaker 2: I was assigned to stand outside Lyndon Johnson’s he did. In those days nineteen sixty three, the vice president of the United States did not have a formal residence. There is now there is a vice president’s mansion. Back then there was not, and he was living in the home of a woman. I believe she was from Texas and her name was Pearl Mester. She was known as the Hostess with the Mostess, and Lyndon Johnson and Lady Bird were living in her home waiting to ascend to the White House, but they were going to be living there, and I was assigned to stand outside the house and report on the new President of the United States as he made his way to the White House.
00:23:55
Speaker 1: He was literally him coming out.
00:23:57
Speaker 2: Literally him coming out the door. He was supposed to come out. I forget what the time was. Let’s say seven thirty in the morning. He didn’t come out until eight thirty. They had nowhere else to go, so they stuck with me, and I had libed for an hour. Oh really, really, live television, live radio, live radio radio. I wasn’t doing television in those days. It was just radio, and so that was, you know, in some respects, that was one of my first big breaks. They realized I could add lib.
00:24:34
Speaker 1: What did you talk about? Were you like, they have nice landscaping out here?
00:24:37
Speaker 2: You know something? I remember one thing in particular that I did talk about. There was a guy who had this huge dog, may have been a mastif, and he had tied the leash of the mastiff to the handle of the driver’s side of his car. And he was literally walking his dog around neighborhood driving it because the massive was so big that if he had tried to, you know, him around, who would have pulled him around?
00:25:09
Speaker 1: And I thought maybe the guy’s lazy, But now I think maybe he’s smart.
00:25:12
Speaker 2: He was smart. He was smart, and the dog didn’t seem to mind it, you know.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: And so you’re you’re reporting on your ad living about what you’re seeing. Send it outside of Lyndon Johnson’s. After Kennedy’s assassinated, I.
00:25:24
Speaker 2: Was doing at least three or four minutes on the Man and the Dark, right y journalism at its best. That is basic.
00:25:33
Speaker 1: So so you you got that job. You were married. One thing that was interesting to me, and this relates to your relationship that you have with your family and your and your wife as I understand that you, after your career had launched, you stepped down from your career to allow your wife to go to law school and pursue her career. Is that the way that happened.
00:25:59
Speaker 2: I’ll tell you what. I’m going to give you the inside story you’re rolling. You got this. My wife and I met in grad school at Stamford. I was taking a master’s degree she was getting her PhD. She was very close to getting her PhD when we decided that we were going to get married. And I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I said, I don’t think I can handle this. And she said, what do you mean? And I said, the idea of doctor and mister compele. My ego wouldn’t let me handle that. And, to my everlasting shame, I talked my wife out of finishing her PhD a few years, pass years, twelve years. I’m thinking back now, and I’m ashamed of myself. Right, I mean, what I did was not right. And so I went back to my wife and I said, you know that wasn’t right, and I want to make it right. I’ll take a year off and let’s head back out to California and finish your finish your PhD. And she said, you know, I’ve been thinking about that. I don’t really want to do that. I want to go to law school. I said, okay, i’ll take I’ll take your first year of law school off. So I went up to ABC and I told him and they said, well, you know, let’s let’s see if we can’t keep you part time. And so they put a microphone in the house, and I did a daily commentary from my home. After I did the carpool, took the kids to school, fixed breakfast, fixed al lunches, did the shopping. Then I recorded the commentary and word got out that I had done this. And back in this had to be about nineteen seventy seven. Back in nineteen seventy seven, the house husbands were not that much of a common thing.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: Thing wasn’t the thing.
00:28:32
Speaker 2: So you know, I got a lot of play as a house husband, and I became the patron saint of house husbands. So the irony of all irony was Ted, having done a really despicable thing when he was twenty years old or twenty one years old, ends up becoming a hero for doing the right thing twelve years later. There, now you have. Now you have the whole story.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: Incredible story because that most people wouldn’t have wouldn’t have pulled that off. I mean, I don’t think most people would have had the character to just to see that they’ve done something wrong and actually go back and.
00:29:13
Speaker 2: Well it’s kind of it’s kind of you to put it that way.
00:29:17
Speaker 1: Well, I think it’s true.
00:29:18
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, all right.
00:29:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting, Well, that’s that that that checks out, because that’s sort of well, now you gave me the inside story that no one’s ever heard only on bear Grease. Have they heard this, Well, all the reporting in the world.
00:29:32
Speaker 2: A couple of other people may have heard it over the years. It’s just to cook it. But I doubt that the bear Grease listeners had heard it before.
00:29:40
Speaker 1: They probably haven’t. They probably haven’t. I want to talk to you about.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: The non viewing listeners. Need to know that at this point you were checking your notes.
00:29:54
Speaker 1: Right, It’s true, checked it first time I checked it. Now you you became known. You told me before we started. There are two kinds of journalists. There are those that come.
00:30:02
Speaker 2: Two kinds of interviewers, not two kinds of viewers, but two kinds of interviewers.
00:30:07
Speaker 1: There are people that have a list of questions, and then people that actually engage like a human would engage in normal conversation. Conversation and shift and flow and listen.
00:30:19
Speaker 2: Now you can you know, if you want to be kind to your kind of interviewer, you can say it’s two kinds of interviewers, one who prepares and the other who doesn’t.
00:30:33
Speaker 1: Who needs notes.
00:30:34
Speaker 2: Right, No, I mean you prepare right, right, right, you did your homework, Yes, you were a good boy.
00:30:44
Speaker 1: How do you so you you’ve set across from world leaders? Uh, give me a highlight reel of the world leaders that you have. If there were a top five, who would who would Ted Copple’s top five world leaders that you’ve intern viewed?
00:31:01
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, let’s let’s lump all the presidents together.
00:31:05
Speaker 1: Okay, American presidents.
00:31:06
Speaker 2: American presidents, that’s one.
00:31:08
Speaker 1: Have you interviewed all of them up until?
00:31:11
Speaker 2: I’ve interviewed Trump, I’ve interviewed Clinton, I’ve interviewed Obama. I’ve interviewed Nixon, I interviewed Reagan, I interviewed Yeah. Actually I have interviewed both both Bushes. Yeah.
00:31:31
Speaker 1: So you know we’re going to put them in one category. That’s one category, Yeah, because they just those guys just get a job for four years and move on, and it’s kind of inconsequential.
00:31:41
Speaker 2: Inconsequential. On the other hand, what else is there? I interviewed Nelson Mandela when he came out of prison.
00:31:49
Speaker 1: Did you go to South Africa?
00:31:50
Speaker 2: I did? I interviewed I interviewed Putin. I was the first, first certain the first American journalist to short. He’s about my size. Yes, he’s short, okay, yeah, just checking. Yeah, And in fact, he and I was standing up when we were when I was interviewing him, because it was supposed to be a brief interview. They were going to get me ten minutes, and I kept going, and finally one of his aides was crawling on his belly on the floor and tugging on my pants to indicate to me, in case I had forgotten.
00:32:39
Speaker 1: You kept going there.
00:32:40
Speaker 2: I kept going there, you kept going. I had him. I had what year?
00:32:44
Speaker 1: What year did you interview Putin?
00:32:46
Speaker 2: That was that was when he became president? What would that have been about nineteen nineteen ninety something.
00:32:53
Speaker 1: Late nineties? Yeah, okay, So Nelson Mandela.
00:32:56
Speaker 2: Nelson Mandela Putin. Who are some of the other We’ve got all the American presidents. Now we’ve got Gorbachev, Garbachov. Yes, I was with Gorbachev at the Kremlin in his office when he was sitting across the desk crumbing like this, when he was interviewing and not interviewing, when he was saying goodbye to George Bush. So that was kind of a twofer. When you for a second, I’m giving you a two for for here. You just go give a ride right over it. I mean, you know how many other people interviewed, you know, had Gorbachev.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: And carry on my apology?
00:33:40
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, that’s it.
00:33:41
Speaker 1: You know, Gorbachev and and Bush at the same time.
00:33:46
Speaker 2: At the same time. That’s not bad, right.
00:33:50
Speaker 1: That’s not bad.
00:33:51
Speaker 2: Right.
00:33:51
Speaker 1: That’s almost like the time I interviewed Roy Clark and Warner Glenn at the same time.
00:33:58
Speaker 2: Roy Clark, I know who’s the guy.
00:34:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s it’s a joke. You probably don’t know the Roy Clark I’m talking about. It was an inside joke for my beloved bear grease people. Roy Clark is a is a a plot bare hound man, a legend in East Tennessee. And Warner Clark is Warner Glenn is probably the the oldest living working cowboy in America. Incredible man. He was an inside joke.
00:34:25
Speaker 2: I think you just trumped me to coin of Fridge.
00:34:30
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe so uh okay, world leaders though you were giving me your top five world leaders. We’re close to five.
00:34:38
Speaker 2: So oh yeah, I think you know, uh who else have we got? Now? Would would any of your listeners know the name Eli Zell?
00:34:50
Speaker 1: I’m not familiar with that name. You’re not for my wife? Probably is?
00:34:53
Speaker 2: I bet she is?
00:34:54
Speaker 1: My wife is Yeah, she’s nothing her should have just said yes.
00:34:57
Speaker 2: Shoul was a survivor of the Holocaust and he came to this country as a refugee, and he began working for peace all over the world, and he ended up winning the Nobel Peace Prize. He was a wonderful man. He really was an extraordinary human being who had survived many, many things. I mean, he was in one of the death camps. His father was killed there. I believe his mother was killed there also. Anyway, so Elliott, we need more. Where can we go to a different wall?
00:35:43
Speaker 1: I have a question when you think about your life. Are interviewing world leaders because in your job that would kind of be a pinnacle marker of success. Is that meaningful to you or no?
00:35:56
Speaker 2: Less than you might think, Yeah, I thought that. I thought you might say, you’re you’re a sensitive guy. Is that going to undermine your credibility with all the bear hunters? Guy?
00:36:09
Speaker 1: No, because people, people that would know me at a surface level might think they would understand the these like external accolades that might be meaningful to me, and they wouldn’t be that much.
00:36:24
Speaker 2: I mean, I get to do my interview later. But what’s the most meaningful accolade to you?
00:36:29
Speaker 1: Well, the most meaningful accolade that I have. No, No, I’m not trying to sound cute, but.
00:36:35
Speaker 2: Would be.
00:36:38
Speaker 1: How I am when there are no cameras and no podcasts and no people, how I am as a husband and a father. That that is the pinnacle of of my success, aside from which would even be a layer deeper my what I believe God expects from me and how I live so my connection to him. But people might might see me sitting with Ted Copple or me No, but some hunting escapade that was an adventure in those things are meaningful, but they are.
00:37:11
Speaker 2: You’re absolutely right. But having said that, I have a whole lifetime of having done the one at the expense of the other. You know, we have four children. I have four children guests who takes care of them when Daddy’s off fighting the war or covering the war? Right right? Right? You know. I was in Vietnam Laos Cambodia over a period of about three years in and out. We had at that point when I first went to Vietnam, we had two kids. By the time we left Hong Kong in nineteen seventy one, we had three and a fourth on the way. My wife was the one who took care of it everything.
00:38:03
Speaker 1: Which you’ve done it the same way, Ie, you could do it again.
00:38:06
Speaker 2: No, what would you do different What I would do differently is I would show a little more spunk. I would say no. On occasion when our son was born, he was born in Hong Kong. It was a very difficult berth. It was a Cesarean birth. He’d had the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck. He very really, very nearly didn’t make it two days after he was born or three days after he was born. I forget which exactly. I went off to Cambodia. Why because there was a.
00:38:49
Speaker 1: War going and you were at the peak of your career. You had to make it, or you’re before the peak of your career.
00:38:56
Speaker 2: It’s certainly. I mean, if Nightline was the peak of the career, this would have been, this would have been twenty years twenty years before the.
00:39:05
Speaker 1: Way you were scrapping to fight to the top. Because that’s that’s the hardest part. And I want to ask you a question about it. That’s right, like when when you’re in your thirties and when you’re in your twenties, when men and women are are fighting to get a hold on life, their career, the things that are ultimately going to help their family, right, that’s the time when we also have our children, most people, and it’s so difficult in the moment because I would I would have the same scenario to some degree, not to the degree that you traveled. Have I traveled? Not even close? But my wife would say, yeah, Clay spends a lot of time away. But it’s such a difficult thing because all that made you who you are?
00:39:51
Speaker 2: Did it?
00:39:52
Speaker 1: Did it come at the expense of your family?
00:39:54
Speaker 2: Though?
00:39:54
Speaker 1: Was your family?
00:39:55
Speaker 2: Sure? Okay, yes, absolutely, no question. I mean, my wife has been heroic in terms of how she has kept the family together. She’s been heroic in terms of doing everything that a husband would have done if he’d been home.
00:40:16
Speaker 1: But would she want you to have done something different today?
00:40:23
Speaker 2: I know her pretty well, but I can’t answer that. I don’t know. I think in her heart of hearts, she would say, if I thought he could have stayed home without becoming embittered at the loss of opportunity, I would have wanted him to stay home. But she didn’t want me to lose that opportunity, and she didn’t not because of anything she wanted. We could have gotten along with a lot less during the early years we did. Yeah, those are those are difficult questions to answer. You know, it’s part of what you and I are going to be talking about culture. What makes the culture of a given society, what’s important? There are some things that translate from the country to the city, A lot of things that don’t right, but things like that, a man doing what he feels he has to do for the family, is it really for the family? Well, yeah, he puts food on the table. That’s important. In some cases, it’s critical. In some cases he’s the only one who can do it. In another case is not so much. Could I have made a living without traveling all around the world, without covering seven wars? You could have done it. But you were correct. I was. I was a man on the goal on the come right m hm.
00:42:13
Speaker 1: When you when you look at your career with all the all the accolades that like I read at the beginning, what’s most meaningful to you today? Because you are you eighty five now? Yes, so you’ve you’ve had a lot of time to evaluate all the stages of life. I mean, it’s so life is uhr, life can be confusing because I mean, I’m for I turned forty six yesterday, and uh the things that I value today are far different than they were twenty years ago, and really even different than they were ten years ago.
00:42:51
Speaker 2: Well, happy breathday.
00:42:52
Speaker 1: Anyway, thank you, thank you, and uh And you know, in every every decade passes, you’re able to evaluate and see the fruit of that decade. And at eighty five, what what had value in your life? What’s what’s the most meaningful thing? Because our culture does value success, it values money, it values all this stuff. And then people would look at you and go, oh man, this guy’s been massively successful. He must be the most happy man in the world. Are you?
00:43:28
Speaker 2: I am very happy? What is the most important thing to me? My wife, my children are all grown? But as whold are your kids? I know, bears to twenty three, bears man’s nineteen. Yes, so you’re at that stage where they’re kind of phasing out right, they’re gonna they’re gonna lead their own lives. But I got news for you. You’re going to be their daddy. Until they die or until you die, whichever comes first. Right, it never stops. You don’t want it to stop. You want them to be, to a certain degree not dependent on you, but you want them to turn to you as, if not the best friend, one of the best friends. Right, so that that stays the case all the way through. Mm hmm, that’ll never change.
00:44:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that’s good advice. I’ve got a misty if we need Do you have any specific questions. I’ve kind of got one more thing, and I could talk to you for another hour, but I want to I want to honor your time we ask for.
00:44:59
Speaker 2: You’re gonna thirty forty five minutes, You’re going to talk to me for another hour.
00:45:04
Speaker 1: Okay, Well maybe when I see over here and pulling on my pants, I’m gonna whop him in the head and then we’ll talk for another twenty minutes. I learned that from a good newscaster, So I interview a lot of people. Was never trained in it, was never just kind of just started doing it and became a podcaster.
00:45:28
Speaker 2: You’re a natural. You’re very good.
00:45:30
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you. My question to you is, uh, when you’re interviewing, when you interviewed world leaders, or anyone that you respected, may not have been a world leader, may have been someone no one knew. How do you how do you not get nervous? I mean, essentially is the question. It’s not a very articulate answer, but how do you maintain control? How do you actually get out of someone what you want from them? How do you do that?
00:46:06
Speaker 2: I remind myself that he’s not really or she’s not really talking to me. I’m the instrument through which that person wants to reach the audience that I have. When I was doing Nightline and when Nightline was at its peak, we sometimes add audiences up to nine million people a night, huge audiences. So when people want access to that audience, they’re going to put up with a lot of nonsense from some guy they might not give the time of day two if it were just talking to him. I don’t care about you, Clay. Don’t you know that it’s your audience. I’m after.
00:47:05
Speaker 1: Understood.
00:47:06
Speaker 2: I want to I want to talk to those bear gas folks. Right, that’s right, No, But I mean that’s that’s what we all do. We’re simply instruments of reaching a different audience.
00:47:21
Speaker 1: Do you think is that the way modern journalists think or like these opinion opinion media people where because I would say, that’s kind of the way I do journalism.
00:47:32
Speaker 2: I think, I think it is. It sounds like sounds like it.
00:47:35
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to I’m not quite as I’m just trying to let you funnel through. I mean, I’m kind of trying to. I mean, I’m just I would have the same conversation if there was no audience. You know, I’m just kind of expressing my interest. But do you think most is that still a thing where a journalist is just a glass window that’s just reflecting into another audience.
00:48:00
Speaker 2: Now, journalism has changed tremendously, and it’s the technology that has changed. I mean, the fact is, I would bet that do you have any idea how large your audience is? I can you tell me.
00:48:21
Speaker 1: After this?
00:48:21
Speaker 2: I will, Well, that’s no help. Okay, So let’s just pick a number. Let’s just say fifty thousand people, okay, and they’re all over the United States. Right. You’re not reaching them by radio, you’re not reaching them by television. You’re reaching them through the internet. Right, that’s right. The Internet has done a curious thing because the net brings literally sometimes millions of people together over an issue without the controlling influence of a journalist. There aren’t a whole lot of journalists the way I would define the term in my business anymore.
00:49:28
Speaker 1: What are they.
00:49:31
Speaker 2: For the most part, you know what you’re getting, you know what the ideology is, right, they tend to be and if they are not ideologues themselves, then they’re commercial ideologues. Right, So that for example, a viewer of Fox News and a viewer of MSNBC, no, it was pretty much what he or she is going to get. It’s not the same thing.
00:50:05
Speaker 1: And they’re they’re tuning in because it’s telling this person’s reflecting back to this person kind of what they want to hear exactly. And you know that.
00:50:12
Speaker 2: So there’s a there’s a sympathy, you know, there’s a there are sympathetic vibes going back and forth between the television set and the viewer.
00:50:24
Speaker 1: And that never happened before. That wasn’t common before the Internet.
00:50:29
Speaker 2: Really, it wasn’t common before the Internet if large, you know, if largely because you had ABC, NBC and CBS. There was no CNN, there was no MSNBC, there was no YouTube, there was no Fox. And there is a reason why Walter Cronkite was at one point considered the most trustworthy person, the most trusted man in America. Now, was there ever an election that said Walter is the most trusted man in America? No? There was I think one magazine article that referred to him as such. And it stuck, and it stuck, and it was you know, there was a certain him I knew.
00:51:18
Speaker 1: Did you ever did you ever have to arm wrestle him or disfot him?
00:51:23
Speaker 2: No? I am more likely I would have arm wrestled with Dan Rather or Tom Brokaw, both of whom are good friends.
00:51:30
Speaker 1: Were the Oh yeah, were they really?
00:51:33
Speaker 2: Oh? Sure?
00:51:33
Speaker 1: Was there animosity?
00:51:35
Speaker 2: No, no animosity, but rivalry.
00:51:38
Speaker 1: But there was a professionalism though. I mean it’s kind of like a would probably more than there would be today.
00:51:45
Speaker 2: I think so probably. But we really I mean, you know when I say, and I don’t know your audience, but I’m just assuming and you can correct me if I’m stereotypiness. Not yet, I’m not, but I’m just about to, if you’ll wait for a second. I’m stereotyping in the sense that I believe that many members of your audience would look at a network correspondent would look at me, or look at Dan Rather twenty thirty years ago and town broke all the same time. We’re all about the same vintage, right, and say, you know, those guys, those guys were all a little bit left of center. Right, maybe not even a little bit left of center. But back in our day, what else did you have? Right where? Else? Where else could you go? There was ABC, there was NBC, and there was CBS.
00:52:55
Speaker 1: Oh, so you had no choice but to broadcast left of center. You wouldn’t have got a job. Is that what you’re saying.
00:53:00
Speaker 2: No, what I’m saying is you, as an audience member, could have flipped the dial and said, yeah, I’m not crazy about these guys for whatever reason, your personal reason, and then you would have said, however, I got no place else to go. There was no CNN, there was no Fox, There was no But if I tell you now, and I tell you that with great sincerity, we tried very hard to be down the line. We tried very hard to be honest reporters. We tried very hard to give you a story without ideological twist. Having said that, I will tell you it’s been my life experience that the reporter on the ground is always going to have a slightly more liberal outlook than the people back, for example, in Washington. When I was in Vietnam, for example, and would come back for one of these year end shows, I would always get in the fights on the air with our diplomatic correspondent who covered the State Department with the White House correspondent who covered the White House. Why because I was bringing back the point of view of the grunt on the ground in Vietnam, and they didn’t much care for the war. They didn’t think the war was going all that well. There were even a few of them who thought that we were losing the war. You couldn’t hear that in Washington back in those days. So was the reporter on the ground more liberal than the reporter who was covering the State Department in the White House? Absolutely? But were we by definition left of center? No. We tried very hard to be right down the middle. That’s kind of gone these days.
00:55:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s almost like you have to pick a side.
00:55:12
Speaker 2: Well, either that or pick no side. I would argue that the networks these days are less ideological than they were forty fifty years ago.
00:55:29
Speaker 1: I’m pretty confused by that. But are you what do I mean, I mean like to say, like, well, I mean you could pick either side like a Fox News or a CNN.
00:55:39
Speaker 2: No no, no no, but those are not I’m talking about the broadcast networks, ABC, NBC, CBS.
00:55:44
Speaker 1: Understood, right, understood.
00:55:46
Speaker 2: You’d think, you know what the what the ideological slant is of the anchors on ABC, NBC and CBS. I’m not sure that they have one, and they shouldn’t, Okay, But I also think that the stories that they do are less tough than the ones we used to do. M point of view, Yeah, and it’s a point of view that comes from an eighty five year old geezer who it’s been out the pasture for quite a while.
00:56:25
Speaker 1: So what what’s your prediction of how things are going to go? Because the Internet truly is a technology that changed planet Earth. Humans have never done this before what we’re doing, and like, media was so impacting to society for so long and now it’s you know, people are getting their news from everywhere, They’re getting their news from where they want. There’s news coming to your phone coming Like, what’s the projection of what media is going to do to this country in twenty years?
00:57:08
Speaker 2: I’m not optimistic. I don’t think it’s leading us in a good direction. Let me put it this way. Thirty forty years ago, a couple of guys sitting at a bar having an argument happened all the time. Now that argument ends up on the Internet, and before you know it, you’ve got half a million people engaged, and where they’re getting their information may not be the best place. Part of the problem is people’s information frequently has an ideological bias on the left and on the right, and the end result is you’ve got people in our country today who are at odds with one another only because of what they’re hearing or reading or seeing on their carefully selected medium, which reflects their point of view to begin with. That’s why they picked it, and it’s driving us as a people further and further apart.
00:58:35
Speaker 1: I agree there you, Oh yeah, good, Absolutely, I think I think it’s it’s tearing us apart. Part of the seams. I mean, and I don’t know that there’s a there’s a better solution, but yeah, it’s interesting.
00:58:50
Speaker 2: It’s not whether there’s a worse or a better solution. The problem. The technology is picked us up in its teeth and is running down the road with us. Yeah, yep, we have no say in it anymore. I mean, how do you well, I’ll ask you later. How do you feel about influencers? What is an influencer? Do you know?
00:59:14
Speaker 1: I do? Are you an influencer? I don’t want to be, are you? I mean, I think some people would consider me that. I mean, I’m just being honest. I’m not. It’s not a flattering term to me. Neither is being a podcaster. I don’t interced be it. A podcaster is like being a used car salesman. Really, I don’t want to be a podcaster.
00:59:36
Speaker 2: No, well, that’s easy, stop it.
00:59:38
Speaker 1: Well, but I am very interested in people and their stories and interpreting their stories to the world.
00:59:45
Speaker 2: You are a very good communicator, and so you should do it. You have to do it on the medium that’s available to you, right And you know, so far you haven’t received an imitation from the network, but maybe you will.
01:00:01
Speaker 1: Maybe you think you’d get me a job at would you take it?
01:00:05
Speaker 2: Well?
01:00:05
Speaker 1: You know what talks you know in the poorest state in the country.
01:00:09
Speaker 2: I’ll tell you what. You know what they don’t give away these days in the in the richest city in the country.
01:00:17
Speaker 1: What’s that? A whole lot of money, A whole lot of money. Same here, man, same problem here, Yep, I don’t know are we? Are we good? Destined? Okay? I saw you inching up. I thought you were going to crawl over here and pull my pant legs. Almost so, okay, Misty, is there anything else I need? Ask? How old were your daughters when when you stayed home? The year you stay home it would have been Misty asked how old his daughters were when he stayed home.
01:00:52
Speaker 2: Well, the oldest daughter would have been thirteen or fourteen, and then the nixt phone would have been eleven or twelve, and the youngest would have been about six. And I had a son at that point and he would have been about eight, right, seven or eight? Yeah?
01:01:20
Speaker 1: Who better?
01:01:23
Speaker 2: What do you mean? Who cooked better?
01:01:25
Speaker 1: Between you and your wife?
01:01:28
Speaker 2: Misty? Do I look suicidal to you? All I keep thinking about is I heard I heard an interview with Jimmy Carter on the radio and it had something to do with pork chops and peanut butter. And I cooked it that evening and they were awful. I mean they It must have been me, because I’m sure you know if Jimmy had cooked and they would have been just fine, but I was lousy on the pork chops and peanut butter.
01:02:11
Speaker 1: Have you ever had wild game?
01:02:14
Speaker 2: If I, well, I’ll tell you when I would have had wild game when I was in boarding school. I was in boarding school in like nineteen fifty one, fifty two fifty three in England, in England, and that was shortly after the war the war ended nineteen forty five, Second World War. I know we had a lot of rabbit, really.
01:02:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it would have been farm raised rabbit.
01:02:41
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it would have been oh no, like.
01:02:43
Speaker 1: Wild hunter killed rabbits. Yeah, in the boarding school in England.
01:02:47
Speaker 2: Well, it was the only meat they could get. Yeah, oh, after the war, after the.
01:02:52
Speaker 1: War, it was it was distressing times.
01:02:54
Speaker 2: They were distressing times. So you know, I rabbit with gusto. Okay, I’m not sure I could.
01:03:06
Speaker 1: Have could have helped you in your quickness and agility over the years.
01:03:10
Speaker 2: Never know either that or my stupidity. You can’t tell. It’s uh, I’m trying to think. I have never there is no question about it. I’ve never tasted bear. How does bear toost? Bear?
01:03:26
Speaker 1: Is uh?
01:03:28
Speaker 2: Uh?
01:03:28
Speaker 1: In the words of one of the early explorers of America. It tastes betwixt pork and beef.
01:03:37
Speaker 2: Betwixt betwixt pork and beef. Yeah, well, I like pork and I like beef.
01:03:45
Speaker 1: I’m being quite serious, and I would say, I would say, this is I believable with all my heart?
01:03:49
Speaker 2: Is it? Gamey?
01:03:50
Speaker 1: No? You you would eat bear meat that I cooked for you and you would think it was beef.
01:03:57
Speaker 2: I will tell you a cook World War two story, meat was rare. M m. My mother came home one day bearing a steak. Hmm wed. I had never seen a steak. My father had many times, right, but not during the war. And she cooked that steak, and my father ate it, and I ate it, and she touched neary a bite of that steak. Now you’re thinking, I know what you’re thinking. Horse. Hmmm. No, what else could it have.
01:04:42
Speaker 1: Been a steak? It was red marbled.
01:04:45
Speaker 2: Meat, not marbled, but red meat.
01:04:48
Speaker 1: Red meat. Yes, well, I mean I would I would have thought she.
01:04:53
Speaker 2: Or beef.
01:04:54
Speaker 1: But was it a mule?
01:04:55
Speaker 2: No, it was a whale whale whale meat. Well, meat tasted a little bit fishy, but red meat. Mm.
01:05:06
Speaker 1: Right, you ever had what’s the name, it’s right on my I should have just gone for it. It’s it’s never it’s it’s the it’s the outer layer of skin of a whale with a big chunk of fat. The Inuits, the Arctic people in the Arctic eat it, leat it’s muck tuck tuck. Oh my gosh, they eat it. They put seal.
01:05:31
Speaker 2: Oil on it.
01:05:33
Speaker 1: Tastes ocean.
01:05:36
Speaker 2: Let let the record show that Misty is sort of moving her hands in a flat facing the floor, back and forth, indicating I.
01:05:47
Speaker 1: Stand by my second swing at matt muck tuck, muck tuck. And it’s a it’s a it’s but it’s it’s the fat and outer layers.
01:05:55
Speaker 2: It’s beautiful.
01:05:56
Speaker 1: It’s black, it has a little square and it’s white. And they eat it. It tastes like the ocean tastes like it tastes like you’re in and you’re in the in the in the Atlantic. You know, with swimming with a fish. It’s bad. It is not good.
01:06:12
Speaker 2: Can’t wait? Well, you have you have achieved your primary goal here, yes, which is to so exhaust me that I can’t really interview you. But I’ll do the best I can.
01:06:24
Speaker 1: Well, mister Copple ted ted truly a pleasure. Thank you, this will be talking with you today on Burgery School. Definitely be in the top ten to twenty interviews I’ve ever.
01:06:38
Speaker 2: Done well top ten twenty No.
01:06:41
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, much much higher than that, much more time I was. I set you up for that. For those not watching, I lifted up my hand and was counting on the five digits. He thought I was going in for top five. No, truly in honor, truly, in honor, thank you so much for coming to Arkansas play and take the time. I wasn’t when I when I asked your producer if you would sit down with me for Bear Greece, I honestly thought there’s no way he would do it. So your your kindness and generosity is is noted.
01:07:10
Speaker 2: Well together with kindness and generosity, please include stupidity. No, it was a pleasure, it really was. Thank you. You were brainious. Thank you
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