00:00:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, we are discussing an exciting project ongoing right now to save four thousand acres of prime hunting ground down in the southeastern United States and to make a public imperpetuity. All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Moultrie. Today, we’ve got a fun episode, a different kind of show, but one full of I think, a promise in good news and an opportunity. You know, if you’ve been paying attention to public land related news and an update and proposals and government policy over the last year or so, give or take, you’re probably overwhelmed. There’s been a deluge of changes and policies, shifts and bad bills and concerning headlines and it’s a lot to take in. And many of these things have been you know, of worry to hunters and anglers who depend on public lands all across the nation. You know, the public lands sale proposals last summer being an exhibit A. So with all of that kind of negativity surrounding us, it is a great and welcome privilege to get to talk about an opportunity to save some public land, to hopefully increase our public land. And that’s what we’re here to discuss today, a really cool project that we are involved in a mediator along with our partners on X to try and help save four thousand acres down in North Carolina, a big chunk of public land, or land that could be public land that is open to deer hunting and turkey hunting and all sorts of good stuff that I know that many of you would enjoy, could enjoy, or if nothing else, appreciate having out there. And so today we’re going to break all that down for you and explain exactly what’s happening. But I’m going to first give you the thirty thousand foot kind of cliff notes view right now, and then we will break down the details with my guests. So at a very high level, as I mentioned, there’s four thousand acres down in North Carolina that have been historically open to public land, hunting and fishing in access, but they’ve been owned privately. Now those lands are being put up for sale, so that four thousand acres will be wiped off the table for public access. We are trying to help change that stop that we’re partnering with as I mentioned on X, but then also a local land trust called the Three Rivers Land Trust to try to raise money to buy back these lands, give them to the stay of North Carolina, and make them public well into the future. So that’s the high level plan here, that’s what we’re trying to do. On X and Mediator have both put up one hundred thousand dollars each to form a matching pool, which we can then match any donations until May fourteenth to try to raise these money. These these funds to try to put rocket fuel on this initiative. So that’s what’s going on right now. It’s part of Mediator’s Land Access initiative. We’re really excited about it. There’s already been incredible progress that the campaign kicked off about a week ago and a lot of momentum has been gained. We’re going to get into all of that here in just a few minutes with my guest, and that guest is Travis Morehead. He is the executive director of the Three Rivers Land Trust, and he’s going to help us break this whole thing down and then understand exactly. You know what this piece of ground is. It’s kind of known as the Tuckertown Game Land. So what’s the story of this swath of ground. How did it come to be publicly accessible? What have people been.
00:03:49
Speaker 3: Doing out there?
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Speaker 2: What kind of hunting, what kind of fishing, what kind of opportunities people enjoyed? And then what’s happening now? Why is this ground being sold? What’s the threat of losing this land? And finally, what can we do about it? How can this campaign help? How can you the listeners, be a part of this. And you know, whether you live in North Carolina or the southeast, or anywhere else across the nation, I would point to this being an exciting opportunity for all of us, no matter where you live, to stand up and do something right now, at the time when it seems like a lot of public land decisions are outside of our control and outside of our influence, here’s an opportunity that each and ever one of us can do a little something to try to help keep a public I was, you know, felt really good to be able to do that myself. I’ve been so excited to hear friends and family doing the same thing, and I’m excited and appreciative of all of your support too. So that’s what we’re going to discuss here today. I will not belabor the point anymore. We’re going to get to my chat with Travis Morehead very briefly. A quick plug though for another podcast on the media or network. Just recently, the new Blood Trails podcast season two just launched.
00:04:58
Speaker 3: Brave reviews for this show.
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Speaker 2: If you are into true crime, this is the show for you because it’s true crime mixed with hunting and fishing in the outdoors, so that’s the setting for these dramatic stories and explorations that are pald Jordan Sillers hosts their stories from Montana to Maine and a whole bunch of.
00:05:17
Speaker 3: Points in between.
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Speaker 2: I think there’s eight episodes in this upcoming season, so search out Blood Trails. Check that out if that’s your cup of tea, and otherwise, also go to save Tuckertown dot org to be a part of this campaign that we’re about to discuss. So here’s my chat with Travis Morehead, thank you in advance for participating, for being a part of this and helping just keep the public.
00:05:44
Speaker 4: All right.
00:05:45
Speaker 2: Joining me now on the line is Travis Moorhead from Three Rivers Land Trust.
00:05:49
Speaker 3: Travis, thanks for being here.
00:05:51
Speaker 4: Mark, thank you so much. We’re looking forward to this conversation.
00:05:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
00:05:54
Speaker 2: This is, you know, in a kind of a current moment where there’s so much news laid to public access and public lands, a lot of it concerning news. This is an opportunity for some good news and that excites me. So if you’re willing, Travis, I’m going to kind of throw you into the deep end and ask you to share a whole bunch of stuff. And first I want to start pretty basic though, all right, what is this place? What are the tucker Town game Lands? What’s the story of how this place came to be and kind of become this important hub of outdoor access in North Carolina?
00:06:36
Speaker 4: Sure, so, just for some general reference, the.
00:06:40
Speaker 5: Yakin River Game Lands, which Tuckertown is a part of, is in the central part of North Carolina.
00:06:44
Speaker 4: It’s almost in the dead middle of the state. In fact, eighty.
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Speaker 5: Percent of the residence of North Carolina live within an hour and a half or one hundred miles of this location, So we’re a little east to Charlotte, a little south of Greensboro, and a little west of the Raleigh area.
00:06:59
Speaker 4: This for some general parameters.
00:07:01
Speaker 5: What it is really goes back to the early nineteen hundreds when aluminum smelting was relatively new.
00:07:08
Speaker 4: There were four dams.
00:07:10
Speaker 5: Eventually constructed along the Yakin River, and Alcoa owned and operated those dams, and they had an aluminum smelter in Baden, North Carolina that powered these dams. Hydro electric power the smelter and the power needs for the plant and many others. But that’s where the power came from. And so as a part of that, they had to buy a large swath of land along the Yakkin River so they could make sure they could control the dam, the waters and all that. So there were thousands upon thousands of acres that were bought from really in North Carolina terms, from Davy County up along the Ayakin River north of Salisbury all the way down to right at More Mountain State Park or album Warl and there were four dams constructed. The Tuckertown Dam was constructed in the nineteenth sixties, and so these dams along with them came additional lands. And what Alcoa did was they allowed public access on those dams from the from the sixties for hunting, fishing, hiking, birding, whatever kind of public uses they were. And uh and so folks got used to having at one point over eight thousand acres publicly accessible lands along the river and it just became ingrained in the local community that these are these are public lands. In fact, I still have a hard time people. People still don’t understand that Alcoa owns those lands and they’re not owned by the Wildlife Resources Commission. So what has transpired is in twenty nineteen, uh, well, actually, let’s back up. In two thousand and seven, Alcoa had to get a new license to operate the dams, and so when they did that, they had to they offered up four thy seven hundred acres and seventy six miles of shoreline for sale to either the Land Trust or the North Colina Wileland Resources Commission. And they offered in two phases at a predetermined price of about thirty three to thirty five hundred dollars an acre. So we worked in twenty nineteen to serve the land on High Rock, which is roughly forty five miles of shoreline and twenty three hundred acres of game lands. And so we worked with the commission and we ended up securing that. Then that started a time clock. We had two years to take down an additional eastern side of the Tuckertown Reservoir of froughly twenty four hundred acres and thirty one miles of shore line, and so we ended up doing that. So we conserve forty seven hundred acres and seventy six miles of shore line that was required. That was a requirement for Alcoa to get the license, and they had said during the negotiations that the lands on the western side weren’t going to be offered in the negotiations. They wanted to save those for another licensing period fifty years later, is what they were expecting.
00:09:51
Speaker 4: That turned out not to be the case.
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Speaker 5: Alcola ended up selling the dams and so they don’t have that primity anymore, and they have these extra lands on the western shoreline now four thousand plus acres that are not tied to a license, that are only the open market that have been there since April of last year, and really, what’s it threat or what’s its stake is four thousand acres of publicly accessible lands that that folks sometimes think are public and they’re not. They’re publicly accessible, but not publicly owned. So we’re working.
00:10:22
Speaker 4: To close that gap.
00:10:24
Speaker 5: And you guys have been tremendous and sort of spread the word about this and we’re we’re so grateful for the for the efforts from both you and on X to do that.
00:10:31
Speaker 2: Well, it’s a it’s a privilege to get to be a part of something where you know, what could what what is a very real, concerning threat could be turned into a something worth celebrating, which is which is an excessiing opportunity. Now, one thing I want to double check on if am I right that when this all started that Alcoa was was it a requirement that they made it publicly accessible as part of their terms with the whole damn situation or was that a just something they decided to do on the you know, out of the goodness of their hearts.
00:11:05
Speaker 5: So the first two sections at twenty nineteen and twenty one were the forty seven hundred acres that was a requirement. Now these lands were not a part of that agreement, and so that’s why it’s not a part of the requirement for them to do that. And they have the flexibility to sell these lands on the open market right now.
00:11:20
Speaker 4: They could do with them. They could keep them, or they could sell them. Previous lands were required.
00:11:25
Speaker 2: But what I meant was was the access that they gave for the last sixty years. Was that access just like a voluntary thing on their part or was that required as part of them being granted some of those lands.
00:11:37
Speaker 4: So that’s a great question.
00:11:39
Speaker 5: We I don’t have the nineteen fifty eight license to be able to tell you for sure, So I would say that it was it was likely a requirement, but I don’t know that for sure.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So for sixty some years, though folks have been using this land, it has felt like it has seemed like in use and experience it has been public land. What is this land actually like like?
00:12:01
Speaker 3: What does this place? What does it look like? What does it feel like?
00:12:05
Speaker 2: What kind of opportunities are available out there? How have folks in North Carolina been enjoying this place?
00:12:11
Speaker 4: Well? For me, it’s home.
00:12:12
Speaker 5: I grew up here, is so it’s uh, I sort of get goosebumps when you ask what it’s like.
00:12:17
Speaker 4: It’s just home to me. What it’s like.
00:12:20
Speaker 5: From a topographical perspective a hunting perspective, we’ll cover both of those. These lands are part of one of the oldest mountain ranges in North America, I called ures and so famili with you Auri National Forest. You know, geologists say that these are some of the oldest mountain ranges in the world.
00:12:38
Speaker 4: And so.
00:12:41
Speaker 5: The peak height of some of these we call them mountains here in the social part of North Carolina.
00:12:45
Speaker 4: They’re not mountains throwing to the Rockies, but they’re mountains to us.
00:12:47
Speaker 5: If you stand at the bottom Ofvem, you got about on thy twelve hundred feet to the top.
00:12:51
Speaker 4: But for us, that’s a that’s a mountain. Around here again in the.
00:12:55
Speaker 5: Central part of the state, it’s a river corridor. So you have a great hardwood buffers on the rivers. You’ve got some planet pines in between gigantic rock out croppings. The history that goes back along this river mark is just unbelievable. I mean, I know the video touched on sort of the the Daniel Boone early settlements aspect of what we have here in North Carolina and in this part of the state, and all that’s entirely accurate, you know, So from looking at it, it’s, uh, it’s just some really old, rugged mountains that have a wide species of games, got great fisheries. The fishery there is is unbelievable from a bass and catfish. And in fact, some folks will probably get mad because I said that it’s it’s really got a great local fishing following uh that not a lot of folks go to. So it’s it’s giving a spot up, I guess, is what you’ll say. And then turkey and deer. Uh, you know, for public land hunters, it’s as good as it gets. And I think I shared with some staff earlier that these game lands are a part of a series of game lands along the Yakin River in the southern Peton to get over one hundred and seventy one thousand users on an annual basis, and so it can be crowded because public lands there certainly can be that. But I just can’t imagine if we lose them, then we have four thousand acres we don’t have anymore. The game lands we do have are going to be even more crowded, So it’s got an impact.
00:14:18
Speaker 2: Well, this area, you know, it’s correct me if I’m wrong, But this is not like Montana or even you know, some parts of the Upper Midwest, where there’s hundreds of thousands of acres of public land all around. Right, there’s relatively little public land in this part of the state.
00:14:34
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
00:14:35
Speaker 4: That’s correct.
00:14:36
Speaker 5: So you have a lot of public land in the mountains, and you have a lot of public land on the coast, but in the middle of the state there’s not a lot of public land. I think the North Colina Wildlife Commission manages about two million acres total in.
00:14:47
Speaker 4: The state of North Carolina, which in the.
00:14:48
Speaker 5: Southeast that’s a paint pretty high. But as far as in the center of the state, within that sort of driving distance we talked about, being within one hundred miles of most folks who live in the state, there’s not that much publicly accessible hunting land for sure.
00:15:03
Speaker 2: Speaking of public hunting in this process right now, while those lands are for sale, are they still open to the public during this period?
00:15:11
Speaker 4: They currently are open to the public?
00:15:13
Speaker 2: Okay, So are people out there turkey hunting right now as we speak?
00:15:16
Speaker 4: They are Turkey hunder if you speak.
00:15:18
Speaker 5: We were doing an interview with a local television station and people were bank fishing and joining them just like they always have, and so they are still in use and hopefully we’ll keep them that way.
00:15:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, what what folks do folks know is as well known in the community. Are Are there local hunters and anglers who who are equally as concerned about this?
00:15:38
Speaker 3: Or is this a surprise to some people.
00:15:40
Speaker 5: I think it’s both a surprise, and I think folks are beginning to become aware of what happened.
00:15:46
Speaker 4: When they first went on the.
00:15:47
Speaker 5: Market, we got a lot of calls from folks asking us, what are you doing about it? I thought you already can serve these lands, and these lands again weren’t part of the negotiations for the re licensing agreement, so they weren’t on the table. So we would have to tell folks that, you know, we agree with you, we think they should be, but there weren’t, and so now we’re gonna have to do something about it. But as far as local hunters, there’s sort of a you can imagine there’s chat rooms everywhere about local hunting and fishing, and stories are being told. But there are people that see the importance of this campaign specifically, and I’ll be quite frank you know it is we were expending some negative pushback on the campaign from people that maybe don’t understand what we do as a land trust, but because of your name on X and met Eatter, you know, we haven’t seen that and it’s been really refreshing to see that people understand what’s at stake and that you guys are in it to win it as well. And so we’re just excited about that and the fact that that people were recognizing that, you know, we’re into expanding public lands, that’s one of our calls as far as our mission goes, and so your organization, meat Eatter and ONEX have really helped that.
00:16:58
Speaker 2: Well, how did you guys get involved, like what, what does where did this begin for for Three Rivers Land Trust and what has your role been through this process?
00:17:07
Speaker 5: Well, that’s a great question. We we started when when they first came on the market, we started receiving calls and asking what we were.
00:17:14
Speaker 4: Going to do.
00:17:15
Speaker 5: So we thought the numbers were sort of high, frankly for the purchase prices they were asking for, and so we did some due diligence and got some appraisals to make.
00:17:23
Speaker 4: Sure that financially we could we could do that.
00:17:28
Speaker 5: Once we did that, we partnered with the Wildlife Commission to come up with a plan to see which ones, which parcels are most important to them, which ones they want to see and served, and.
00:17:36
Speaker 4: So they prioritize those of those parcels for us.
00:17:39
Speaker 5: And then we sort of strategized about how best to start a campaign uh to do this, recognizing that no one had stepped forward from a bigger organization perspective.
00:17:49
Speaker 4: We’re we’re the local land Trust.
00:17:51
Speaker 5: We cover fifteen counties in North Carolina, but nobody seemed to be picking up the mantel and we decided that was that was too big a bottle that dropped. So we as a staff collectively decided we put our shoulders into it to see what we could do to conserve and allow public access on as many acres as we can buy. And you know, our mission has four fundamental tenants. First is expanding public lands, the second is is saving family farms, the third is protecting wildlife habitat and local waters, and the fourth is nationally fenced conservation. And so this bit a majority of those tenants for us, and so we just jumped on it and said we got to do something.
00:18:29
Speaker 4: We’ll see what.
00:18:29
Speaker 2: Happens when you guys had the Resource Commission do that kind of audit of the landscape to help you guys understand where the highest priority parcels were and what you know, what.
00:18:40
Speaker 3: Made those high priority?
00:18:42
Speaker 2: What are they find like the what were the criteria that they were looking at when determining, Hey, this region is particularly important. We really need to focus here or there or elsewhere. What are some of those things A that they were looking at and B that that just make anywhere on this property to stand out. Because we’ve been chatting a few days ago, maybe a week through or so about some of the standout wildlife hair habitat characteristics too, and I thought that was interesting.
00:19:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, So they did take that into account. So they have several things. One I think the first criteria they used, I think was proximity to other conserved lands. So there’s a parcel that’s on the eastern side that ranked really well because it’s contiguous to another twenty three hundred acres and so that ranked really well. The other parcels were ranked because of the natural species or the natural heritage will referred to it on the site, so they have I know that folks, some folks won’t like this, but timber rattles, snakes are threatened around here, and so this had good habitat because of the rock out croppings, and so that was a criteria. The access to public lands and we have a boat launch, a public boat launch that’s near one of the parcels. And so they came up with the criteria and they’ve vetted it through their fisheries, through their local biologist positions, and they came up with all that. But I would tell you at a high level that was some of the key cructery was was the location to conserve lands and then what species were either threatened or state threatened or endangered, and then the habitat types that you know, the rocky outcroppings, the hardwoods. It was just after doing someone from resoarch analysis, they came up with the top four or five parcels that we jumped on.
00:20:24
Speaker 2: Okay, so what is the timeline on all of this. You said that that came up for sale or was the process began last year? At some point our involvement began here in April.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: How fast is all this moving? How you know?
00:20:41
Speaker 4: How much?
00:20:42
Speaker 2: You probably don’t know, but how much time do we have? What’s what’s all of that look like?
00:20:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, that’s a great question.
00:20:47
Speaker 5: We so I did mention they started they were for sale last March April. We didn’t officially launch our campaign until after doing the due dillings was a sort of homework on it. We launched it January first, sort of kick off a new year, so it was quite a while sort of a lead time after the analysis that came back from the Wildlife Commission is really when we sort of picked out which parcels we’re going to go after and set a launch date.
00:21:13
Speaker 4: So in the fall last year we.
00:21:14
Speaker 5: Were coming up with a campaign and sort of getting things in place, blocking and tackling ready for a launch on January first. Had a great launch, But the question is how long do we have You know, that’s a great question because theoretically these lands are have four sale signs on them to day and they could go away tomorrow if you had the right buyer come in and have the money that they could buy them. So that’s the threat mark is that you know that alcohol will not sign an option that propert owners have to let to not just sign an option.
00:21:43
Speaker 4: We’ve gone down that path.
00:21:45
Speaker 5: To say give us, you know, twelve months, give us eighteen months to raise money around this, and they’re in a business mindset saying no, they’re going to wait and whatever comes forward, glad to come back to the table and you have the money. But until then, we’re not locking anything down. So that’s really emphatans is to raise money quickly. Once we get a certain amount to take down a parcel, we’re going to take it down and we’ll continue to do that time after time again as parcels remain available and as funds are raised.
00:22:14
Speaker 2: Is there any kind of, for lack of a better term, gut feeling or premonition or vibe or energy level that you guys have internally when you look at the prospects here. Is there is there some optimism that that this is possible or some of this is possible, or does it feel like we’re facing down the barrel of a gun and at any moment you’re gonna lose this place.
00:22:42
Speaker 4: Well, I think I think all those things are true. Is some days of the.
00:22:45
Speaker 5: Week, the the fact there’s threats out there to this land, publicly accessible land.
00:22:51
Speaker 4: It’s certainly something that keeps me and the staff awake at night.
00:22:55
Speaker 5: We have heard of folks sort of kicking the tires looking at these lands to uh to purchase them for private reasons, whether a corporation or a private individual, and public access will be lost.
00:23:06
Speaker 4: So that is what we sort of go to bed with. Are we optimistic? Yes, I mean it’s it’s.
00:23:12
Speaker 5: A we’re definitely gonna get uh some of this land conserved with your support and on X, I think we’re definitely gonna get some of it’s just how much will we get? And so you know, it’s it’s battling the elements. It’s it’s working with a capital society and on an open market and we’re proud of that and we will gladly compete. Uh, But we need folks who hear this message to say, you know what, it’s important to have public lands in the East. Maybe ought to support this campaign no matter where I live. And we’ve seen that so far. Mark, it’s been amazing. Yah.
00:23:54
Speaker 2: Yes, So well, I guess we’ll hold off on that. I want to talk about the progress so far on the campaign and project, but but I want to circle back on a couple other specific things. One thing I’m wondering about, and I don’t know how much insight you guys have into this or if it would just be pure guesswork, but what kind of person or what kind of interests would buy these lands? Like do you is it could there be like housing developments there or would this be for some kind of resource extraction or what are the possibilities here if a different entity were to purchase it?
00:24:27
Speaker 3: Do you have any sense of that?
00:24:28
Speaker 2: Like I guess I’m trying to imagine what the future could if this project doesn’t work, If you guys are not able to succeed with this campaign, what’s the alternative future?
00:24:37
Speaker 4: Well, that’s that’s the reality we’re dealing with.
00:24:40
Speaker 5: And what we’ve seen so far and what we’ve heard so far is there have been mining companies have expressed an interest in these lands.
00:24:48
Speaker 4: From what we’ve found.
00:24:48
Speaker 5: Out, we’ve also had national and local development interest for housing developments. Obviously, when you talk in riverfront folks locally see this is the next Lake Norman from North Carolina Lake Tillery where homes and second homes and docks and piers come out, But this is really a secluded lake. The lake does not really benefit that kind of walk, that kind of honey or that kind of use. It is much better because it’s relatively shallow at points in stump Field that it’s really a fishing lake, a waterfowl lake in fact, a local waterfowl hot spot. So it’s uh, it will dramatically change the use of that land if, if, if more homes are added. It has a few homes on it now maybe less than ten total, but it’s the potential there to put homes on it, have community piers. The current shoreline management plan mark you know, they have a plan because it was a part of the Federal Industry Regulatory Commission process. It has a shoreline management plan that calls for not individual docks, but it calls for if they do it, community docks. But that could be changed at any time. And then then when we opening up a whole ban of a whole different sort of can of worms, if we had that come.
00:26:05
Speaker 2: Up bout yeah, what what when when a project like this comes comes to your table as a land trust, what options do you typically have at your disposal? Like I know, I know one of the options is what you’re what we’re trying to do now, right, which is raise funds from private individuals in the kind of capacity that we are with this fundraising campaign.
00:26:34
Speaker 3: But you know, how often.
00:26:35
Speaker 2: Are there ways to leverage other tools like federal grants or I don’t know, land and Water Conservation Fund dollars or partnerships with other programs out there is any of that possible with this project or or in other alternative or other alternatives in addition to that.
00:26:54
Speaker 5: I would love to say they were, They are available, There are programs available more. But as you know, if you ever navigated the grant the federal grant process, it’s it’s not a quick one. So we can’t meet the timeline that I’ll cut a cold want to meet for a closing date and apply for these grants because the timing just doesn’t it’s not compatible the timing to get a grant approved to get funding. I mean, it’s it’s a several year process and and they’re not willing to tie the land up for that amount of time. So we’re really looking at one option from a conservation perspective. The other option that would be available to maybe other landowners that they had a similarly UH space project would be a theoretically a conservation easement. They could donate and receive tax benefits. But in this case, our cool was very quick to say that that’s that’s not a it’s not an option for them. They did not want to do that. To to make sure the land stays undeveloped, we could they could donate a conservation easement, but that’s that’s not something they were interested in. They’re they’re looking to be taken out.
00:27:56
Speaker 2: So what happens on the Let’s imagine the positive future. Let’s imagine that we’re able to raise these dollars that you guys need, and you get enough to make an offer on a first parcel or however much land that we can afford, and you’re able to get an offer accepted.
00:28:16
Speaker 3: What happens then, So, once.
00:28:18
Speaker 5: We get an offer accepted and we’re under contract, we’ll do the due diligence that is required as.
00:28:23
Speaker 4: An accredited land trust.
00:28:24
Speaker 5: We’ll look at the title, we’ll do a survey, and once we get to a closing, we’ll close the project and the project. This is important for people, especially in North Carolina. Understand these lands will remain in the game Land program. There’s gonna be no the end user will not be able to distinguish the difference between who the previous.
00:28:43
Speaker 4: Owner was and the land Trust.
00:28:45
Speaker 5: So the folks that are using the land today as game lands, if the Land Trust owns that land, they’ll be able to use it at the same time, same way they’ve always used it until we can transfer it to the State of North Carolina and the ownership category. We’re glad to transfer it. We don’t want to be the end owners of this. We want to make sure this gets transferred. But in the interim, while there’s still a gap there, these lands will be publicly available just like they are today, and we’re proud to do that as a part of our mission.
00:29:12
Speaker 4: So that will be how the land is used.
00:29:15
Speaker 5: And then once it’s transferred and the Wildlie Commission while it’s in the interim phase and then in the permanent phase, you know they’re going to manage those lands from a timber harvest perspective, prescribed fire perspective, from a habitat perspective. So that’ll be all about the Wildlife Commission doing that, and and they’re ready to step forward and do that.
00:29:33
Speaker 3: What does that like, What what does that look like?
00:29:35
Speaker 2: I’m not familiar with the degree of management that that North Carolina State Commission there does can you can you give me some broad strokes to what that is.
00:29:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have broad strokes is they are have a very until recently and we have a burn band in North Carolina due to a drought. But until then we have a very active prescribed fire capability both at the at the land thrust level but also u at the local while if Rechurch’s commission depot which is in Troy, North Carolina, so they make sure that they maintain public hunting grounds or game lands as best they can with prescribe fire, with public access, with putting in parking lots or parking areas that that folks can ascess that having trails, whether they’re they’re not really foot paths. There are, there is one footpath, but just general access to get in and out of game lands. So that’s what they do and they do a fantastic job. They’re great partners to work with and they’re definitely committed to the mission.
00:30:35
Speaker 4: Awesome.
00:30:35
Speaker 2: I got to believe that all that or a lot of that habitat stuff especially helps with of course the hunting opportunities that so many listeners are interested and exciting about.
00:30:45
Speaker 3: Right, that’s that’s a prescribe.
00:30:46
Speaker 2: Fires and various projects are probably why deer and turkeys love it so much.
00:30:50
Speaker 4: That’s right, and I’ll be honest with you, brag them a little bit more.
00:30:53
Speaker 5: They they actually have active populations of quail. Quail in North Carolina or becoming a thing of the past unfortunately, but they’re there’s active populations of both quail and woodcock on these lands because the management that takes place, and so we’re very happy with to partner with them, knowing their good stewards of the resources.
00:31:11
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:31:12
Speaker 2: So one question I’ve gotten from folks as they’ve started hearing from us and everyone about this project stems from some of the Western public land sale sale land transfer issues we’ve dealt with out there, and one of the major concerns on the western part of the United States has been going from federal ownership to state ownership and concerns about states selling their public lands. That’s been a noted thing in the Western United States because those state lands are mandated to turn a profit and they fund their school systems and all that. So I’ve had some questions for people wondering, well, what if this campaign works and you guys can buy some of these lands and then the land Trust transfers.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: It to the state.
00:31:54
Speaker 2: What’s keeping the state from just selling the public land? Can you speak to that at all?
00:31:59
Speaker 4: I can’t do it.
00:32:00
Speaker 5: Certain degree is it’s certainly not my area of expertise. I would say that that hasn’t happened in North Carolina to my knowledge, we’ve not had that happen in the past where public lands, public honting lands were sold. And part of that comes down to the grants that are used to either purchase the land or in this case, if there’s any kind of Pittman Robertson money, obviously you know what that is, federal tax money that comes down, they have to sign some disclaimers about how that money will be used and if if there would be a payback if, as I understand it, if those dollars were used on any of these land purchases. So there are some internal to the Wildlife Commission sort of set ups or call them checks and balances. But you know, this also may have some conservation related dollars to.
00:32:50
Speaker 4: It from a.
00:32:52
Speaker 5: Local grant agency that may say you need to record a conservation easement, or you need to do X, Y and Z and so those would all be things that we can entertain. If those are concerns for folks, We’re glad to try to address those if we’re not addressing them appropriately now, If it helps folks feel more comfortable and donating to.
00:33:10
Speaker 2: This, yeah, well, And I think it’s also important to note that the state land systems here as I understand it, in much of the eastern United States are very different than the West, where there’s that mandate and that funding structure for funding schools and different things like that, where they truly are looked at as profit centers those state lands specifically, while in places like my home state of Michigan or I’m imagining in North Carolina, it’s a different setup in which these lands have been much more looked at as a long term asset for the public good from a current status use. So, yeah, it sounds like it sounds like going into this game lens program, having it managed by the state, having it continue to be open to the public for hunting and fishing and all these other uses, that seems like a tremendous outcome. So it would what has the progress been so far? You kicked off the campaign in January. Uh, we began our involvement, you know, mid April. Where do things stand right now? How are the how’s the energy within within the staff and everybody working on this, and and what are we looking at so far?
00:34:18
Speaker 5: So let’s talk about two different time period. Let’s talk about January first, and then we’ll come into a media or no next joint, the joint the partner two.
00:34:26
Speaker 4: We had never had.
00:34:28
Speaker 5: When people give a donation to the land Trust, we get an email it’s generated, and we’d never seen the amount of support we’d had at a local level, and by far a local level on any conservation project ever. I’ve been here ten years as the executive director, almost working on eleven and just never had the kind of outpourt of support that they come in. So before Mediater got started with us, we had raised about forty thousand dollars and then in the past uh, let’s fast forward to April fourteen, anthemin on acid Mediator publicly joined the fight in the stand. We’ve raised about fifty five thousand dollars in seven days, and we’ve had donations from forty nine states.
00:35:12
Speaker 4: South Dakota. We’re missing South Dakota. I need somebody from South Dakota and we’ll have all fifty states.
00:35:17
Speaker 3: We got to get that.
00:35:18
Speaker 5: We got to Alaska, and we’ve got Europe, we’ve got Canada, and you know, just the outpoint of support is really a jolt in the arm. Recognized, it’s a big number we have to hit for a purchase, but just the fact that people are supporting this from Kansas and from really across the nation is just unbelievable. We feel so privileged and honored to be a part of it, to be leading the effort here locally on the ground, but it would have gotten a national attention in the folks that you all have and to bring to the table. And they’ve been they’ve been you know, grassrooy level gifts. I mean there’s you know, six hundred over six hundred gifts and almost fifty five thousand dollars, so you’re looking to right at ninety one hundred dollars a post on average, but I know that’s nine hundred dollars.
00:36:02
Speaker 4: It did not have to come here. You could go something else, you know, can go to another project. You go to the you know, the grocery store where you go to gas.
00:36:09
Speaker 5: But folks felt it necessary to uh to join this effort and I’m really I’m blessed and humbled that that that folks see the need and have met that need, and really looking forward to seeing how we’re going to finish out this campaign with some additional solicitations we’re working on right now.
00:36:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and what’s exciting is that you take that fifty five thousand dollars so far, that’s just in the first six days of the campaign, right right. We’ve got a whole another three plus weeks to continue on this, and and a lot more outreach planned. And and then you know, every one of those one hundred dollars donations we’re matching, right So that’s that’s one hundred bucks from Joe and Kansas that has become two hundred dollars thanks to X and mediatre and that’s you know, that goes for all of those so dirrec So actually there’s there’s a a whole lot more in the bank now on top of that. So that’s encouraging too, absolutely, And I guess another hope of all of this, at least that’s been in the back of my mind. I’m sure it’s in the back of your mind as well, is that we will hopefully have these contributions from all of these different individuals and organizations like ours. But then my hope and dream is that this helps generate enough attention that there might be some larger institutional interest that maybe is able to rally around this because of the platform of this story and of this project, and right, I mean, maybe that’s where absolutely the next level of funding can come from. Is if we can generate enough public awareness of this, then there might be the folks who have a whole other level of ability to be able to come in and help in a in a big, big way. Is that is that something that you guys have thought about at all or is there ways to work towards.
00:37:57
Speaker 4: That we’ve absolutely thought about it.
00:37:59
Speaker 5: We’re hoping that this is going to get in front of the right folks that are going to have a bend and have the capability to give a six or seven figure gift to make sure this land stays publicly accessible or maybe larger. We know there are folks on the other side of the table who have that ability to buy it and take it out of the public trust. So certainly there’s people that see the ability to keep it in the public trust permanently.
00:38:18
Speaker 4: But you know, your phone call the other day or your email when.
00:38:21
Speaker 5: You said, Hey, I have an elected official call in and wanting to talk about this project.
00:38:25
Speaker 4: What can you tell me in addition to some specific questions. You know, we’re hoping that that happens.
00:38:31
Speaker 5: I’m hoping that through all this that local elected officials and federal and state will will come together and provide you know, federal money, unused federal moneys to the Wildlife Commission that that they can do this on their own. They don’t, they don’t need to have me, and I’m glad to take it if I’m the only option. But if they wanted to use a wildlife Commission from a federal level to fund them so that they could they could purchase these lands and maybe earmark them for that, you know that what a wonderful outcome that would be.
00:38:57
Speaker 4: That would lessen the burden on all of us to be able to do that.
00:38:59
Speaker 5: And frankly, it’s something that after this past week sort of bad news up north, that it seems like somebody’s do some good news and that’d be nice.
00:39:07
Speaker 3: That’d be a nice outcome, right, Yeah, that’s for sure. We do need some good news.
00:39:11
Speaker 2: Has there been any opportunity to get in front of any of your state level officials or elected’s you know, Senator Tillis or anyone like that.
00:39:19
Speaker 3: Are they aware of what’s happening here.
00:39:21
Speaker 5: That’s a good question. We we do talk with Senator Tillis’s office. We’ve also talked with our local congressman. We briefed him. His name is Addison mcdal and we’ve briefed him on the project. He’s aware of it. But we need to do I need to do a better job of reaching out to elected officials. It’s just when we talk about lobbyists and we talk about federal money, I just know how tight things are and how scrutinized things are, and you know, it’d be great if they gave it to the Wildlife Commission to if they if they had feral moneyes. I think I was told by one of our consultants that last year in North Carolina, the largest earmark gift was eight million dollars. Eight million dollars is a lot, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not forty that would need to sort of secure all this, So you know it would be great. I did have a congressman now say he would reach out to the.
00:40:11
Speaker 4: Part of Interior.
00:40:11
Speaker 5: I think we can reach out to to see there’s any unused grant funding that he can be reallocated to this project, but had it heart back. So we’re excited about that opportunity and we welcome it certainly.
00:40:22
Speaker 2: Is that is that an ask if someone is a North Carolina resident and they’ve already donated to the cause, They’ve they’ve contributed what they can financially so far, is it worth North Carolina residents getting a hold of their elected officials and talking about this too.
00:40:38
Speaker 5: I think it’s definitely worth it, and I would venture to say that it’s worth almost the same effort that was happening last summer when Senator Lee was out in Utah asking or trying to push through selling public lands, and sportsmen in English from all across this nation, no matter where they lived, got up in arms and said not one acre. So I hope, while it’s not exactly the same, very similar, I hope that folks would, regardless of where they live, call your local congression, call hours here in North Carolina and advocate for this project because losing four thousand acres in a state, this is going to be the seventh most populous by twenty thirty.
00:41:14
Speaker 4: We’re going in the wrong direction, you know.
00:41:17
Speaker 2: Running a land trust like you do, how often do you see these kinds of opportunities come up? Is this is this like a once in a generation kind of thing, or is this, oh yeah, every few years there something like this, and and unfortunately they disappear and we lose that access, and it’s it’s happening year after year. I guess I’m just curious about this as far as that historical timeline.
00:41:40
Speaker 5: So scale wise, I would say that the only thing is comparable or the other two phases of the project without CoA. So we don’t have large landowners like well, I guess we do. We have power companies that have large land holdings. There are some some some opportunities, I guess, but these are pretty rare. For four thousand acres to be for sale at one time in different parcels by the same owner is pretty pretty rare, certainly in the central part of North Carolina where the majority of folks frankly live.
00:42:12
Speaker 4: And what about just.
00:42:15
Speaker 3: Open space in general.
00:42:17
Speaker 2: When I think about land trusts and easements and all of these different tools within kind of the private side of the conservation world. I think about how when I drive through my old neighborhood where I grew up. I was just back home in western Michigan and we were driving around where I grew up, and all these places that I used to go catch frogs and turtles and drive around my mountain bike, or go build tree forts and stuff like that, they’re all neighborhoods now. Or there’s a Walmart here and there’s another store here. And I’m seeing right in front of my eyes just in a handful of decades what used to be these wild, open places that I was a little childhood Daniel Boonen, and now they’re a you know, I’m seeing this happen all across you know, my home state in Michigan and elsewhere. What’s the status in North Carolina? Are you seeing similar development? Are you guys losing these open spaces at the same rate that so many other places are.
00:43:19
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:43:19
Speaker 5: In fact, some interesting stats Mark again, one of the stats for North Carolina is it’s really talking about rural lands, but it’s specifically about farmland. So North Carolina, according to a study, is the second most threatened farmland in the nation, behind Texas. We lost seven hundred and thirty two thousand acres of agricultural lands from two thousand and one to twenty sixteen. And if you remember, the Great Recession was in that time period, So I imagine that we’re losing lands at an even faster rate now. So I grew up much like the place you just described as your hometown. I grew up very similar right here in North Carolina. My favorite show in the world is the Andy Griffiths Show. And uh, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it, but it’s uh, you know, it’s Mayberry. I grew up where I can walk out in the front field that a farmer planet, and I could look for airheads, and I could go down to the neighbor’s pond and go fishing.
00:44:11
Speaker 4: Uh.
00:44:12
Speaker 5: And I could hunt dove or deer or whatever. And it was really an ideal situation and it was rural in nature. So our character in North Carolina is changing. We’re getting all the growth from a lot of growth from California, from New York, uh, primarily from from other states, and it’s it’s really changing the diamic in North Carolina and putting a strain on rural lands. And this where this is where we serve we we honestly, we don’t serve urban audiences as our biggest town maybe Fable outside for brag or Concord outside Charlotte, but everything else is very very rural from a from that perspective, and so we’re definitely seeing a change. We’re feeling the pressure. And that’s really why these lands are so important, because there’s really a last bastion of four thousand acres that that’s consolidated and and really could be saved. And so hoping that that stays the case with folks who want to make sure that lands like this don’t go away.
00:45:04
Speaker 2: So what’s your final ask? What’s what do we want folks to do to be aware of to take some action on right now? If you could, if you could kind of expand on on what we’ve been talking about here and give one last call to action.
00:45:19
Speaker 4: Sure, my call to actual would be simple.
00:45:21
Speaker 5: It would be one, Please donate and regardless of the amount everything goes to the project, please donate support it at save Tuckertown dot org. The next thing would be to ask your friend and your family to donate as well, because you know, we really can’t share this, share the videos, share whatever you see on social media, get folks to sort of see the importance of these lands, even if you’re never coming to North Carolina visa. Lands are important for public access and they need that. And then I would say one of the last things certainly is and by no means disparenty call you relction to officials and ask them to support efforts to keeping lands like this across the nation, but certainly this case in particular, funding them so that the public can have access to lands, because our population is growing, not shrinking, and so we’re going the wrong direction if we If we lose four thousand makers, that’s a loss, that’s not a win in any case. You know, if we keep them, that’s this thing keeping status quo, that’s not expanding. So you know, we’ve got to keep what we got, uh, and we can’t lose any of it. So those are come to mind first and foremost for me, Mark, and I really appreciate again the spotlight that you and on X and and media had brought to this issue.
00:46:28
Speaker 4: Just greatly appreciated.
00:46:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it’s it’s our honor, our privilege.
00:46:32
Speaker 2: Uh, it’s it’s a terrific cause we’re really helpful that that this can help at least put some fuel on the fire and get this ball rolling even faster downhill, and help, of course, you know, fully utilize our matching funds. Hopefully we can we can meet that two hundred thousand dollars goal that we’ve committed, and hopefully.
00:46:51
Speaker 3: Then it’s just uh, to the to the moon and beyond. And I’m counting on I’m counting.
00:46:56
Speaker 4: On some big.
00:46:59
Speaker 3: All barons, barons.
00:47:02
Speaker 2: Of industry to step up and help out the cause here as well and do what’s right for the community and for our public lands and wildlife and hunting and fishing heritage. And I’m just so thankful for what you guys are doing and leading the charge there on the ground too. So thank you for that, Trevis.
00:47:17
Speaker 4: We appreciate that. I’ll pass that on to the staff. I appreciate that.
00:47:19
Speaker 3: All right.
00:47:20
Speaker 2: Well, let’s touch base again in a handful of weeks and hopefully have some great news to share.
00:47:24
Speaker 4: Huh, I hope.
00:47:25
Speaker 3: So that’s right, all right, Thanks for being here, Trevis, All right, no problem morek take care all right, and that’s a wrap. Appreciate you being here.
00:47:34
Speaker 2: As we mentioned, visit save Tuckertown dot org to donate to be a part of this cause to help make a difference in keeping these amazing lands public and accessible well into the future. I appreciate you, thanks for tuning in, and until next time, stay wired to hunt.
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